I’m a bit over all this fretting about whether or not there is a Hell and who among is headed there, and how fast those folk are going.
First there was Rob Bell’s book about “Love Wins” which, surprisingly, wasn’t an ironic tome about Tennis. And now we have another book about the same topic, this one written by Francis Chan and called “Erasing Hell”.
As fun as it seems to be for some Christians to sit around and envision those who’ve mocked their faith in turns humiliated and writhing in torment, I do think we are focusing overmuch on things that don’t matter.
That’s right. I said it. Hell doesn’t matter.
OH, I see into your mind, those of you who read this and begin to stammer “but…but…” I see you saying that Hell most certainly does matter because that is what Jesus’ death is delivering us from and if we don’t get out there and convert the masses, their fiery ruin is on our heads. So Hell should damn well matter. Pun intended.
Here’s the thing. Hell is part of that larger infinity which is essentially beyond our comprehension. It exists in the same realms of thought as God, angels, demons, the fallen angel of light, death, resurrection and the rest of those mysteries. Concerning ourselves overmuch with the coming Hell and it’s theoretical population is not unlike a parlour game. It is something without an answer that we all contemplate to pass the time, to arrogantly peer into the mind of God and the mystery of eternity. To fantasize about the ruin of our enemies. To justify disbelieving in God. Hell is a coathook upon which intellectuals hang many things.
But Hell has no part in the conversation of Grace that I can tell.
Jesus himself talked about hell on several occasions. That is very true. I do not deny that Hell is out there.
What bothers me is our focus on Hell as both a conversion tool and a sort of stick Christians use to get back at everyone else. Maybe it’s because so much of the Christian culture eschews horror films and then has to focus on another outlet for transmuting their rage.
But we are given a clear set of marching orders:
1) Take up your cross daily.
This is the effort of developing a life-long discipline of following Christ. Christianity isn’t a one-and-done proposition, with the prayer of salvation excusing a life of debauch.
2) Love your neighbour as yourself
Love is the most important instruction Christ gave us. A friend of mind points out that the vast majority of folks don’t seem to understand what this love really is. That it is wholly transforming and wholly sacrificial. It is NOT a “what’s in it for me” sort of bargain. It’s a verb that takes your whole self and leaves you changed for the better in its wake.
3) Go into all the world and make disciples of all nations.
This is where I think a lot of us get frantic. God tells us to get disciples so we use the ways of the Old man–fear and hatred–to bully others into an acceptance of God. No matter how reluctant they are. No matter how hollow a conversion can be when based on a reaction. But picture instead Jesus as he calls the disciples. There are no “follow me or go to hell” conversations. Instead there is the certainty of Christ and the promise of a new life. Positive motivators.
I believe Hell exists because Christ spoke of it. Yet I also believe the demons flew into the pigs and then over the cliff. I don’t base my entire faith and worldview on suicidal demonic pigs and I don’t threaten non-believers with demonic possession as a conversion tool.
We’d do better to put less energy into the the attempt to answer the unanswerable and instead worry about those among us who are in a hell of their own; starving, sick, withered and broken. God can worry about all of our collective tomorrows. It’s time we spent today on Grace.
Just Another Pretty Farce 
Bravo. People around me are tired of me pointing back to what I call Jesus’ final marching orders, a tactic I use because a) it’s the last thing He gave us to do (and has not yet been superceded by other others, and b) we flippin’ forget what we’re supposed to be doing.
I think in religious circles some people are getting tired of the literal club that Hell is supposed to be used to force compliance on issues. The threat has been abused by leaders and other followers and to many has become the center point of why they do things. Others are finding that doing right out of love and other societal needs much a better choice in life then fear based actions.
I agree with much of what you’re saying, but disagree on Hell’s overall importance. I certainly don’t sit around envisioning “those who’ve mocked (my) faith in turns humiliated and writhing in torment…”
To be honest, I probably mock Christians far more. (*whew* there, I confessed.)
Like you said, Hell is real, and stupid Christians notwithstanding, eternity is a mighty long time. I agree with Francis Chan that we can’t afford to get this one wrong, because we’re not simply debating a particularly knotty doctrinal nuance – this is real people’s eternal destinies at stake.
If we’re the ones supposed to represent Jesus and pass on His both His teachings and example, we must strive to be faithful and accurate.
Just my 0.05 (counting for inflation)
This is one of those trigger topics for me, so I should probably just go away and not comment. 😦 But I will say one thing. I find it sad that so many Christians relish the idea of divine torment for all eternity. Talk about creating God in one’s own image. Talk about projection.
I’m not sure it’s accurate to enroll “so many Christians” in the Fred Phelps School of Applied Theology.
God’s sense of justice is far higher, more informed, more refined than ours, but that doesn’t automatically exclude punishment and separation.
The idea that we fashion our character by our choices is nothing new. If a person spends a lifetime deciding to move farther and farther away from God, why should it be a shock if God lets that person have it their way? “Thy will be done.” in a sense.
I don’t enroll Christians in this theology. They enroll themselves. The conversation about eternal torment goes the same way nearly every time I have it. When it becomes obvious that eternal torment can’t explicitly be found in scripture, my Christian friends resort to arguing that only eternal torment is a big enough punishment for nonbelievers. Annihilation–that isn’t enough. Who made them the judges, anyway? I don’t like to have this conversation anymore. When it comes up in Sunday school, I keep my mouth shut. And I was going to keep my mouth shut here, as well, because I am just reinforcing the blog author’s message. Like I said, this is a trigger subject for me.
No offense, but you DID Reply, and that means you’re willing – on some level – to engage in the discussion. It’s not right to throw out responses then be surprised when you get an answer. Especially a contradictory one on a controversial topic such as Hell.
I’m obviously unfamiliar with your personal experiences, or any flaccid reasoning in your friends’ conversations, but statements like “They enroll themselves” and ‘eternal torment can’t explicitly be found in scripture” is painting with a broad brush, don’t you think? Which was my point.
Hell is real. Fearful, ugly and profound beyond words, but real nonetheless.
OK, this is where I play armchair psychiatrist with pretentious theories only a psuedo-intellictual can stomach, so read on at your own risk.
I give no argument about the actual existence of hell. To paraphrase our president, that’s “above my pay grade”. However, human nature is something I can’t resist.
As with all narratives, life really doesn’t mean much without antagonists, protagonists, and conflict. I think that deep down we all need hell to exist – not for others, but as a real possibility for ourselves.
We humans love our stories to be good. Somewhere in our DNA, we need them.
For a story to be really good, the worst possible outcome of the conflict has to be dire. The home team HAS to be down by 6 with 10 seconds to go. The game can’t be tied.
Aunt Mimi HAS to be on the verge of losing the farm to Snidely Badguy. She can’t just be in danger of missing a meal.
ActionMan HAS to be dangling off the side of a 50-story building with the bad guy pointing a gun at him. He can’t just be in danger of stubbing his toe.
I don’t know what hell is. I can’t describe it, because to my feeble understanding it is more a “feeling” than a tangible thing. It’s an unseen consequence of losing to an unseen enemy.
So, I guess deep down, for the story of my life to make any sense, I need to think my Hero saved me from more than just a guilt pang or some minor stomach discomfort. (For followers of other religions or no religion, insert “I overcame” for my Hero saved me from”)
It’s the difference between our lives being Lord of the Rings or Head. And for some of us (I think for all of us, on some level), the story is everything.
And Head sucked.
So religion is fantasy or wish fulfillment? A projected Heroic Epic?
Either Truth (defined here as ‘Reality as God sees it’) exists objectively, regardless of our acknowledgment, or we’re just monkeys playing dress up.
And that would mean we’re screwed.
I wrote the initial post when I was admittedly not at my best, so it stands that I may not have been clear.
I do–regardless of whether or not my educated opinion matters–believe that Hell is real.
What I’m fuzzy on is who ends up there and when.
I do ponder those things in the same way I like to ponder other theosophic topics. But I ponder them mostly in solitude.
But I don’t think Hell has a place in missional dialogue. Due respect to your analogy, Slarti, but I think being saved from hell is the mistake we make too often.
It’s not what we are saved FROM but what we are saved FOR. There are several reasons I think this is more important. When we focus on being saved “from hell”, there is a feeling of “well that’s over” and we just get on with things.
Instead if we figure out that our redemption has a purpose we can focus on the striving.
To echo Jill’s point, I think so many people (especially those from a certain cultural framework) DO focus on the damnation aspect for various reasons. Reasons that have nothing to do with Grace and everything to do with the Prodigal Son’s older brother’s way of thinking.
Yes, I believe that the wages of sin is death. (are death). I believe that God is Just and Almighty.
But I would prefer to leave the final disposition to God, only begging that I continue in Grace.
I’d wager Hell probably has the same place/proportion in the missional dialogue as Jesus gave it; it was definitely there, but He spent a lot of time addressing the issue from other angles. After all, the Gospel is supposed to be good news.
I don’t believe it’s an “either-or” approach though. Dysfunctional, disproportionate communication and responses are our problem, not an inherent flaw in the Message itself. The reality of eternal justice, accountability, and consequences is foundational – or dare I use the word ‘fundamental’ to the incarnation.
From my own experience, I know plenty of people who recite John 3:16 but can’t quote a single other verse in that chapter. You have to read the whole thing.