Terry Brooks turned me off fantasy when I was in my early teen years. Then Marion Zimmer Bradley’s dreadful book about the women of the Arthurian legends sealed the coffin of my interest in fantasy.
Now, though, thanks to A Song Of Ice And Fire, I’m now looking to read more of it. And everyone with whom I speak who has read SOIAF has love for Robert Jordan as well.
So tell me, those of you who know, is Robert Jordan worth trying? Or is he simply trying?
Just Another Pretty Farce 
Hmm… not knowing what about Brooks’s writing turned you off, I’m not sure I can help you much with Jordan.
I got hooked on TWoT with the first book, The Eye of the World, and read the next four or five pretty quickly. I don’t really know why. I don’t remember what my impression was of his writing. But in the first five books or so, the number of characters was not cumbersome, nor were all the various plot lines. But at some point in the series, I was ready for story lines to wrap up and to really see some progress with relationships. But all I got was more characters!! And so many of the character names sound so similar. Truly, I wanted a chart to keep up with them all. (Strange, I don’t feel the same way when I read LotR, though… and Tolkien uses a lot of similar names.)
Plus, the paperbacks were notorious for bad gluing at the spine, so the covers would fall off. I had to rubber-band my copy to keep the cover on.
I found Brooks’s stuff easier to read, easier to enjoy. Read a lot of the Shannara books. Many of the Magic Kingdom of Landover books.
But… my patience for long passages of description has decreased over the past couple of decades. (I am wont to blame it on being employed in editorial work. But it’s probably more about laziness.) So I do a lot of skimming, to get to the dialogue and action. (I’d probably do better reading movie scripts!!)
Katherine:
First, you don’t know me, and I realize that probably puts me in the minority of your readers. Nonetheless, I have read your blog regularly since discovering it last year. It’s probably the most and least useful blog I follow for the same reason. I find I agree with you on virtually everything, from Christianity and politics, all the way to loving Neal Stephenson. So I’m not too often challenged here, but it’s often nice to be assured that (even if I am crazy), I’m not completely alone. I’ve considered replying a few times, but have never had the intersection of time and motivation required before.
Second, Robert Jordan. I wouldn’t waste your time. I have a signed copy of The Eye of the World. It’s thrilling, exciting, engaging and delightful. Unfortunately, the series goes rapidly downhill after that. EotW was written to be the first book of a trilogy. This then expanded to five, then seven, then six thousand eight hundred and ninety one books. The pace and plotting slow to a crawl and seemingly random plot lines come in and out. When my favorite character got book five off, I hung up. I feel the whole thing is really a terrible example of commercial interests outweighing artistic ones and thus an example of what’s often wrong with the fantasy genre. And, of course, it was unfinished when Robert Jordan died. Brandon Sanderson, the gentleman who has been contracted by Mrs. Jordan to finish the series (one book in three parts or some such) wrote a fantasy (gasp!) novel called Elantris, which was good enough, but did not motivate me to read any of his other stuff. If I were to recommend one thing in the realm of fantasy, I would recommend Lois McMaster Bujold’s novels The Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls, both of which are excellent. But stay away from her novel The Hallowed Hunt and far away from her series The Sharing Knife .
For full disclosure, I read the first three books of ASoIaF, but have never read the fourth (it wasn’t out). I may read the whole series once through when it’s all published, but I may not. Your comments on Stieg Larsson’s books apply to my reaction to much of ASoIaF, but it is nevertheless very compelling. Martin is certainly a vastly superior writer to Jordan.
Spencer Armstrong
Wow. It’s always really a sort of odd feeling to find you have readers you don’t know. Halfway between humbling and gratifying. Oh, and I’m tickled, too. And honoured that anyone–known to me or anonymous–would spend their valuable time considering what I have to say about things.
I’m so glad you’ve unmasked yourself for this very good cause. Not only because it’s nice to know someone in the world agrees with my cockeyed take on life but because there is no better cause than keeping a fellow reader from wandering too far down an unforgiving path.
Whenever I finish any series I feel like I’ve buried an entire lifetime. All my friends are gone and the places we knew together gone with them. It’s a cold, cruel feeling. I’m forever trying to find comfort in the next thing I read, although inevitably it ends the same way.
(This is also why I’m having such trouble finishing my own work. I don’t know how to say goodbye to all these people who live in my head.)
I was hoping that Robert Jordan would be a likely place to resettle now that Westeros is closed to me. But based on what everyone is saying here…I think I’ll just stay away.
Especially with what you say about it
EotW was written to be the first book of a trilogy. This then expanded to five, then seven, then six thousand eight hundred and ninety one books.
That is far too much like what I find loathsome about Christian fiction, reminding me of how that Jenkins & LaHaye series (Left-Behind! I could not think of the name to save my life there for a second…blame the drugs) was handled.
I see what you mean about ASOIAF being comparable to the Larsson books insofar as they are wretchedly violent. It is easier for me to handle the violence in the ASOIAF series because there is that scrim of fantasy AND the medieval setting. Those things make me feel twice removed from the harsher impact of the violence most of the time.
Katherine:
I appreciate that you read and considered my response, despite not knowing me. I’m not surprised, mind, but I do appreciate it.
You said:
“Whenever I finish any series I feel like I’ve buried an entire lifetime. All my friends are gone and the places we knew together gone with them. It’s a cold, cruel feeling. I’m forever trying to find comfort in the next thing I read, although inevitably it ends the same way.”
I’ve been trying to explain that for years. Thanks for saying it so well. All I’ve ever gotten to is the realization that I can never start a new book the same day I finish another (series being an exception, obviously).
I hope I helped re: Jordan. Good luck in your quest. Fantasy, like everything else, is 90% crud (Sturgeon’s Law). Martin is certainly in the 10%.
I’ll go back to lurking now….
S
Well … so that you’ll know where I’m coming from, let me start by saying that I loved the first two books in ASoIaF and lost interest with the third. I’m still not sure why: too much lag time in between books? The fact that Martin (of whom I am a long-time fan) got away from playing around with the history of the late Plantagenets, which had made the first book especially so much fun for me? The picaresque nature of it all, leaving me to feel that we’d never get a resolution of anything? Whatever. Most fans who like the earlier books have kept right on loving it, so I’m a minority. But I get the appeal, even if it has its limits for me. And I agree with you about Brooks: cut-rate Tolkien.
But based on your reactions to Bradley, Martin, and Brooks, I think that rather than heading into Robert Jordan or even David Eddings territory (both too Tolkieny for me, though Eddings has a fine sense of humor and some nice characters), you might want something with more of a Calvino influence, and less of a Tolkein influence. Am I right about that? Because, if so, read Patricia McKillip, who has one trilogy (The Riddle-Master of Hed) with kingdoms and clashes of strange powers, and many different kinds of magic, and a lot of stand-alone books that make me feel like I’ve heard this story once before, as a child or in a dream, or somewhere if I could just remember. (In a mystical way, not in a derivative way. Her plots don’t imitate anything else I’ve ever seen, they’re just evocative.) If I had to pick one I think you’d like, I guess I’d say A Song for the Basilisk or The Tower at Stoney Wood Or read Catherynne Valente. Yes, I know, I know, that name. But Palimpsest is on my current reading list for you, if I ever finish it. It’s fantasy with trains and apartment buildings, and quests, and descriptions of wild magical trappings for, well, everything.
With me you can always win by assuming “Less of a Tolkein influence.”
I’ve never been that mad about LotR to begin with. They’re fine, and I enjoy the linguistic aspect of things but there is a lot of those books which feels unaccessible to me. It’s either too ridiculous (Tom Bombadil) or florid (much of Rivendell) or fantastical (Cirith Ungull) for my taste. But it is original to Tolkein, and so I credit him with that. Everything that comes after and apes it just….
I don’t care for at all. It’s why I couldn’t stand the bit of Earthsea that I read, and why I think Brooks is best kept far away from me.
I’ve never read Calvino, but since Betsy counts one of his books as her favourite of all time I feel even more pressed to dig into his stuff.
What I like most about ASOIAF is that it is–for the first two books at least–so very much like the Wars of The Roses / 100 Years War resettled in a slightly fantastical environment. As I’ve finished up Book 3 I find myself missing that sense of our own medieval history as GRRM plunges more deeply into the sorcerous aspects of his world. I don’t necessarily begrudge him that; I’ve enjoyed it thus far. But it is decidedly DIFFERENT. I’ve got many other thoughts on the difference which I’ll probably put in email so that it doesn’t spoil other people’s reading experience.
If you’ve never read Calvino, you should read him before McKillip or Valente. I believe you’ll love him. Actually McKillip is in the Calvino mode only in the way she loves the sensualness of the surroundings she writes about. She’s … well, she’s her own thing.
I happen to love Tolkien, but most of his imitators (I can’t even call them followers), pfui!
*taps chin thoughtfully*
I never got into Brooks, really. I read his Landover novels and they were fun, but they always struck an out-of-tune chord with me. Brooks reminds me of a slightly more talented Goodkind (Never ever Read Goodkind. I nearly threw Wizard’s First Rule across the room at least twice, but I didn’t want to break anything).
Wheel of Time has some pretty phenomenal parts. It’s got an good, strong, involved world with disparate cultures and probably the best ‘Prophecy’ type writing in Fantasy (and I hate prophecy). It has strong female characters – for the most part – who have their own motivations and agendas and ultimate goals. It also deals rather well with the ‘YOU, my friend, are the Savior. Whatcha gonna do about it?’ idea.
On the con side, however, it bogs WAY down right around the middle of the series. There is one book where something epic happens. The subsequent book consists of tying off storylines where each group of characters points in the direction of the previous epic thing and says, “Oh, hey, look over there.
I hope that’s not a BAD epic thing.”
I haven’t read any of the Sanderson continuations yet, but Jordan’s last book was /delightful/ because it started tying everything off in the most satisfying ways possible. Sanderson is a lot of fun, though, and knows how to write. His Elantris suffers from Anachronistic Feminist Subplot Syndrome, a relatively small sin in the grand scheme, but otherwise is pretty solid. Sanderson’s Mistborn series also has one of the most fantastic, practical magic systems I’ve come across recently and I devoured it as fast as I could.
Anywho, to sum: Awesome World-building in WoT. Excellent use of strong characters of both genders. Draggy execution and somewhat boggy ensemble storylines around the center. Sometimes leans on stereotypical gender expressions (Women all sniff when they disapprove. Men all wonder at the inner workings of the mysterious female mind.) until it kind of becomes a running gag. Excellent ongoing mysteries and extremely involved storyline… if you can get through it.
WOT gets bonus points for relatively realistic portrayal of alternative non-monogamous relationships. Negative points for those relationships being predominantly polygamous.
But as one of the above posters said, Martin is a better writer than Jordan, but Jordan is very good at the cumulative storytelling technique where little details in the first chapters of the first book show up to be explained in book five or six and have you itching to reread the first few.
If you’re still hunting, though… authors you might enjoy in Epic Fantasy: Robin Hobb (skip her Shaman series, anything else is excellent if slow to get rolling), Jacqueline Carey (her Kushiel trilogy is vibrant and explores alternative sexualities), Naomi Novik’s Temeraire Series (written in delicious Victorian English diction). Those are the three authors who I recommend without reserve.
I read Wizard’s First Rule last summer but didn’t read any of the others, primarily because they weren’t available on Kindle.
I liked a lot of what Goodkind was trying to do in that he was attempting to create a fantasy world as a canvas for enacting his personal philosophy–an overlong Cave Scenario as it were.
But then his personal philosophy got so…alienating. I agree with much of his thoughts about the act of being a writer and quote him often on those. But I don’t like reading much of what he’s written.
You’re the umpteenth person I’ve met who thinks highly of Naomi Novik and Robin Hobb. Carey sounds intriguing as well. I’ll be adding them all to the ever-growing Reading Outside My Comfort-Zone list that NM started for me a couple months ago.
I’ve not dipped my toe into Jordan and friends who love Fantasy tell me that’s not a bad thing.
As I’m sure others have said, the series starts well but soon succumbs to “stretch it out”-itus…or so I’m told. also, the guy died before finishing it and while he gave notes to the family and they picked the guy to finish it, part of you may always wonder how it might been had he finished it….
Personally, I won’t dip into Jordan because the books are such tomes and I feel like I’m about a million pages behind….
That’s so funny — I’m just the opposite. (Well, not about Jordan.) But I absolutely love finding a new-to-me writer with a long series of books: if I don’t like the first one, I can stop without wasting any more time, but if I do … oh, the thought of the long pleasures I have in store is a treat. Of course, then I go around screeching at people not to discuss this writer or those books, so I won’t get spoiled.
nm,
Yeah, I don’t mind lots of books that allow me to spend time in the world that the writer has created and with the characters I enjoy. I think it is the sense of “stretch-it-out-itis” one gets with TWoT, plus sooooo many additional characters. (I reallly wonder if all of them were just that necessary.)
But, see, that’s bad writing. I’m taking it for granted that if good writing goes bad, I’ll stop reading.
But, see, that’s bad writing But I absolutely love finding a new-to-me writer with a long series of books:
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evden eve nakliyat Personally, I won’t dip into Jordan because the books are such tomes and I feel like I’m about a million pages behind….evden eve nakliyat
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