I’ve been open about criticising Stacey Campfield. Apparently there are quite a few people who view him as a sort of Robin Hood Man of The People type guy. A folk hero. There’s a bit of an ode to Stacey over at David Oatney’s, where Campfield is likened to Jesus, of all people. A crucifixion analogy is employed.
Imagine my surprise to read this comment left by David Oatney this morning:
As I recall, you aren’t a conservative-you are a libertarian trending toward the large L. That being the case, you are hardly in a position to call my fellow conservative Catholic “laughable at conservative politics.” He is by far more conservative than you are, so if you want to get technical, he has a much greater right to lay claim to the title.
He doesn’t represent you because you aren’t an East Tennessean. The reason we like Stacey is because he stirs the pot and makes the forces the so-called “moderates” to listen.
Most importantly, Stacey does the right thing. He has something called a Christian conscience. That does tend to significantly alter the way that you do things.
It’s that last bit I want to talk about. The bit where Oatney implies that by criticising Campfield (and probably by being a stinky Libertarian) I am without a “Christian conscience.” I am so angry about this that I’m not quite sure what word to type next. I cannot believe that anyone feels they have the right–in direct contradiction to Jesus’ teachings in the Bible–to question my faith based on my politics. To suggest that I am NOT a Christian because I don’t travel in their circles is heinous.
I honestly don’t know what to say. I really don’t. I will say that this scares me deeply. Is this the direction we’re headed as a country?
Just Another Pretty Farce 
[…] A fellow Tennessee blogger who has been more and more acerbic of late has made K-Co spittin’ m…: I cannot believe that anyone feels they have the right–in direct contradiction to Jesus’ teachings in the Bible–to question my faith based on my politics. To suggest that I am NOT a Christian because I don’t travel in their circles is heinous. […]
As you know, I am not a Christian. But I grew up Catholic in a devout Catholic family and I think I have a pretty good handle on the general Christian morality. To me, you are a Christian in the finest sense.
There are causes worth rallying against, and people perpetuating those causes who merit criticism and vocal complaint. Particularly when those people are elected officials! The causes that incite us to rally may differ from time to time, but you have a right, as an American and yes, as a Christian too, to speak up about and speak out against actions that you see as inherently dangerous.
And I agree with you, that if this becomes subject to interpretation, we’re in for a lot of trouble.
Campfield being likened to Jesus scares the living hell out of me. That kind of crap verges on Jim Jones/David Koresh kind of territory IMO.
Let’s see, I’m a cradle Episcopalian and my betrothed is probably a more devout Catholic than Oatney and Campfield put together and then some, but I’m probably not a “real” Christian either in that camp so don’t feel alone in that regard, KC.
I like this following part…
“He doesn’t represent you because you aren’t an East Tennessean.”
Not right now, but I will be an East Tennesseean very soon and pretty much my entire family of in-laws are, but I’m sure my opinion doesn’t matter
The reason we like Stacey is because he stirs the pot and makes the forces the so-called “moderates” to listen.
#1 – Not all (and probably not most) moderates, nope. Moderates like me will move to another district if I ever find myself represented by him. Not to mention moderates like me find his practices so abhorrent I’ll work to influence every other moderate I can to see he’s not elected.
#2 – Most of the East Tennessee Republicans who “like” Campfield are NOT in the majority and absolutely NOT the Republican support in East Tennessee Campfield desperately needs to really get anywhere outside of small district and local seats. That contingent of Republican and conservative support in East Tennessee thinks he’s a wacko and grandstander much like so many others do, and a joke. A review of Campfield campaign supporters and knowing who to talk to in Knox County will pretty much confirm this.
Anyway, don’t let him get to you, KC. You know who you are, your friends and colleagues know who you are, and anyone who would suggest such things of you as he did – well, you know. He and Campfield either one really are not worth it.
Actually, the “moderates” tune Campfield out because they hate that kind of stuff. That’s kind of what makes them moderate in the first place. If they were engaging him, we would know because he would accomplish more things. And, by “accomplishing more things,” I mean, of course, accomplishing anything at all.
Since when does Republican (Campfield) automatically equal conservative? That is, in response to Oatney, not you. I am conservative in many ways and liberal in many others (which, when averaged out makes me a moderate though I don’t consider myself as such). I think any true conservative should be embarrassed that Campfield calls himself such. He’s really just a joke above all else.
Just to clarify, the reality of “forces (the moderates) to listen” is more like “forces the moderates to vote for whoever in a race is not jumping up and down for attention like someone on the Jerry Springer show in state government, acts like a wacko, and is not verging on becoming an even bigger joke in TN state government than John Ford.”
I should probably add here that actually, I was willing to give Campfield a little bit of the benefit of the doubt for a while until I read how he responded to one of his very own constituents, which was disgraceful and shameful.
Granted, I do have East Tennessee connections and will be an East Tennessee resident eventually, but I think one of the most telling things about the Campfield ridiculousness is just how many Tennesseans outside of East TN (as well as many East Tennessee residents who have stated same) are readily to mobilize to see him defeated when he runs for any state or national office again. There are quite a few and there are folks from all over the board – including Christians, moderates, and conservatives. Imagine that.
Questioning someone’s political beliefs is one thing. Unless you’re God or Jesus Christ himself, to judge another Christian and question their beliefs or make such inferences is not only awfully presumptuous, but violates the whole “judge others not as you would be judged” kind of thing, no? Just sayin’.
(“readily to mobilize = ready to mobilize”) – ugh.
The thing I really don’t get is the attitude of, “That’s not your Representative, so what do you care?” Granted, Campfield represents a district that you and I don’t live in. However, individual legislators propose bills that affect all of us statewide if passed, so we do have a personal stake in their actions.
Yes, Rachel, absolutely. All those crazy bills Campfield kept putting up didn’t JUST affect his constituents if passed, so his supporters’ continual “but you don’t live here, it doesn’t affect you” is not only beside the point but wrong.
Not to mention the fact that there has been squawking about his further aspirations, such as the Senate and who knows what else.
The thing I really don’t get is the attitude of, “That’s not your Representative, so what do you care?”
What I don’t get more than that is that he’s NOT THEIR REPRESENTATIVE EITHER!!!
So it’s okay to be a Stacey-Boostah from anywhere in the state, but not okay to criticise him if he doesn’t represent us directly.
This would fail a logic test, I think.
Questioning someone’s political beliefs is one thing. Unless you’re God or Jesus Christ himself, to judge another Christian and question their beliefs or make such inferences is not only awfully presumptuous, but violates the whole “judge others not as you would be judged” kind of thing, no?
That was pretty much what I was thinking. But I’m a Big L, so whatever.
And, by “accomplishing more things,” I mean, of course, accomplishing anything at all.
Ha!
To me, you are a Christian in the finest sense.
Well, thanks, Kate. Although I hope in your circles that’s not damning with faint praise. (ha! religious joke!)
if this becomes subject to interpretation, we’re in for a lot of trouble.
We’re in a fascist state, is what we’re in if this type of thing becomes the norm. I don’t like to use the f word because people throw it out there too casually sometimes. But this would be the textbook definition of fascism.
He and Campfield either one really are not worth it.
Whether or not their opinion matters isn’t what gets me. It’s the fact that they seem to believe their OPINION is FACT and should therefore hold status of governance. That’s what’s scary.
These folks don’t seem to mind when people from outside Campfield’s district compliment him. I guess it all depends on what you say about him. Funny how that works.
Whoops, Kat beat me to the punch.
I don’t have much to add here since, for the most part, I don’t follow politics that closely. But this kind of reminds me of when I was growing up in the CofC. It was an unspoken “creed” that being CofC meant that you were also a Republican. When I was in high school, I had a friend in the youth group whose parents were Democrats. While it surprised me to learn of this what surprised me and shocked me even more was learning that there were those in our own fellowship who treated them unkindly because of it.
[…] Who Will Be the East Tennessee Torquemada? Filed under: The Conservative Soap Opera — Aunt B. @ 11:56 am Y’all, the Conservative Soap Opera has exploded into incredible ugliness. […]
Kat, I’m still flabbergasted about this and the more I read how that thread is progressing, the more flabbergasted I become. Wow.
Considering the actions that have been carried out in the name of one or another Christian conscience* over the milennia, I would think that those who have them (or who admire those who have them) might be reluctant to make a parade of them. But I have always been struck by the words of one guy a while back who claimed to be acting on his Christian conscience — a very successful Protestant political activist, too. He said, “I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken.” If we could all keep that in mind we might be better off.
*as well as in the names of quite a large number of consciences informed by other religious outlooks
I was trying to figure out where I had seen this dynamic before, and then I remembered: Ann Coulter.
We had some knock-down drag-outs on Free Republic about her. She throws red meat out for the base; she says and does all the things many of them would say, but good people don’t say in public. But most of all, she tweaks the liberals. She is loved almost to the point of worship in some circles beacause of that. These people love the battle; if presented with the choice of a reasonable compromise and a good fight with Dempcrats, they’d choose the fight anytime. It’s a game to these people.
As a self-described bleeding heart conservative, I was called every name in the book for pointing out that she wasn’t being helpful to our cause. Nancy Boy, limp-wrist, namby-servative.
As far as your main point, just pride yourself on knowing you are the latest victim of those, who, throughout the centuries, were small-minded enough to think they could fit Christ under their pitiful little man-made philosophical banners. Amateurs.
if presented with the choice of a reasonable compromise and a good fight with Dempcrats, they’d choose the fight anytime. It’s a game to these people.
It’s the thrill of the fight that bemuses me. I enjoy a good back-and-forth as much as the next fellow, but generally for the purposes of being allowed to speak my mind and hear where the other guy is coming from. A “fight” serves no purpose for me if it’s merely an attempt to ambush someone.
And not to bring Christianity back into the mix, but this is another instance of where our refusal to let God be God actually does more harm to God’s name than anything. By thinking that God gives us the upper hand–and therefore a reasonable excuse to ATTACK–we turn God into the bully and the faithful into a mass of toadies. I somehow don’t think this falls into the whole “love your neighbour as yourself” paradigm that this one Christian dude told me about.
a very successful Protestant political activist, too.
nm, was that a Cromwell quote? Because if so, I doubt it’s liable to appeal to Oatney. Seeing as how he’s apparently more Catholic than the Bishop of Boston. Maybe we should dig up some More quotes. ;-p
Kat, I’m still flabbergasted about this and the more I read how that thread is progressing, the more flabbergasted I become. Wow.
Yeah. I’m having Menno Simons flashbacks.
Roger: Sometimes I think it’s best when government doesn’t accomplish anything. But that’s just me.
Kat: I tend to think that those that trend libertarian are conservative in the true sense. Meaning…they envision a government and society more in line with what the founding fathers intended.
Blake —
“Accomplishing something” can also include passing bills that take laws off the books and diminish government, no?
Good point. That did cross my mind, and I do consider it a major exception to my comment.
However, how often does that actually happen?
Not often enough, of course.
I remember back in my legislature days when Tre Hargett had the (joking–and nonpublic) idea of passing a law requiring the repeal of two laws for every new one put on the books. “Shrink the TCA!” was his slogan.
I think that would be fun to watch.
KC, yes, that was Cromwell. My favorite Catholic politician quote comes from Henri IV: Paris is worth a mass.
Roger: Indeed it would be.
(off topic)
Roger, if I fixed you up a WordPress blog already done that you could just move right into, would you start blogging again? 🙂
What about running for a major public office? (Except I don’t know how to build those.) 🙂
(/off topic)
Lynnster —
You’re kind.
1. I made a promise not to start blogging again until 2008. I don’t want to be like those boxers who keep retiring and coming back early. I kind of like the way it works now, writing on other people’s blogs. I’m like a parasite!
2. Would have to be a nonpartisan race. I would get my tail kicked in a primary. Plus I would have to get the family’s clearance. To be honest, winnign the primary would probably be easier.
He has something called a Christian conscience. That does tend to significantly alter the way that you do things.
How dare this guy presume to know your conscience. What really cracks me up about this is that he says Campy stirs the post and forces moderates to listen…well, for someone like me, all it has done is caused me to run further away from his stand on any issue. I don’t think that’s quite the effect he’s shooting for. He needs to add ignorant to his list of adjectives…
I made a promise not to start blogging again until 2008.
OK, well, that’s good enough! I will be counting down the days.
I’m like a parasite!
Yeah, but a good parasite. Goodness knows we got plenty of not-so-good ones around these parts. Hehe.
Where and when was this promise made about 2008?
And since when is Roger’s Blogging M.O. sponsored by George Lucas?
He’s gonna drag this thing out so much that we’ll all be desperate for the next Roger Blog.
There will be lines around the block and folks camping for weeks awaiting the new Roger Blog.
It was a semi-public promise, made to a few. It’s a matter of personal pride now.
It’s a matter of personal pride now.
That sounds like something Lee Iacocca would say.
“Chrysler. We make the best cars. It’s a matter of personal pride now.”
There will be lines around the block and folks camping for weeks awaiting the new Roger Blog.
It’ll be like waiting for the new Harry Potter book. Or the new season of Lost. Neither of which I do, but I watch the rest of you guys get excited.
I am going to have to something special for Abramson Blogging ’08. Check my blog tomorrow sometime. Hehe.
Wow.
We’ll have people in line dressed up like Roger acting out various scenes from his blog posts.
This will be fun. 🙂
And what’s wrong with that?! Look how well Chrysler has done since, right? Right?
Oh.
I really don’t get the ‘Christian conscience’ statement. Was this the Dark Ages/Burn the Infidels/Torture the Jews into Confession kind of conscience? Or is it the confess the fact that all of us are sinners in the eyes of God, redeemed only by grace and not acts, take that beam from your own eye first kind of conscience?
As to seeking some sort of revenge at the ballot box, remember in the last cycle there was an ‘establishment’ GOP candidate that ran against Campfield, and he was blown away. Maybe an artifact of small primary turnout, but there nonetheless.
Lynnster, it’s not just Tennessee watching his antics. There are those of us who are outside of Tennessee – heck, outside of the South – watching, and poised to vote against him. His aspirations for wreaking havoc don’t actually appeal much to us here.
La BellaDonna – Certainly restores my faith in fellow man & woman. National office for that dingbat = horrifying. Ugh.
Oh poop. I forgot my Abramson Blogging ’08 surprise today. Actually I worked on it a little bit last night but got tied up with something else and forgot. Will have to work on that some more tonight or tomorrow!
All of these people blabbing and running off at the mouth is really grand at all, but if they’d all read the comments over at my blog, nowhere did I say you weren’t a Christian.
Nope, you just implied it.
I did sort of infer that you meant I wasn’t a Christian when you said
Stacey does the right thing. He has something called a Christian conscience. That does tend to significantly alter the way that you do things.
As I took that to mean anyone who disagreed with the way Campfield “did things” lacked a ‘Christian Conscience.’
Then when you said
hope this devotion is a prayerful one that leads to the changes in worldview that a true conversion experience inevitably brings about.
I inferred that to mean that you believed my lack of agreement with you was because of a lack of prayerful contemplation and devotion.
Katherine wrote, “I cannot believe that anyone feels they have the right–in direct contradiction to Jesus’ teachings in the Bible–to question my faith based on my politics. To suggest that I am NOT a Christian because I don’t travel in their circles is heinous.”
Katherine, now you know how members of the Christian Left feel.
David,
There’s a lot of that on both sides of the political aisle when it comes to The Church.
Answer an honest question; Is Kath a better person being a Christian, have Christians collared the market on good deeds.
Do you have to be a Christian to be good. I’m a real stubborn atheist, you know the type, and I ‘ll match my good deeds performed against any Christians. Maybe I’m different in this way, I do good deeds because I can see myself in other mens struggles, I can see me stuck, wondering what to do, sort of lost, and no one ran to my aid or offered help. So it sort of frizzled me out, can I confess all those who drove on by I cursed and blinded, and sent them figuratively speaking to hell, and hell they remain.
Now before you get a clicking and typing away on your PCs, do this, drive out to a lonely country road, park your car, lift the bonnet and look at the engine, don’t move, just stand there pretending to be broken down, and while your doing this count the passing cars, count them and work out the percentages. Lets call that test 1. For test 2 I want you to park outside a prominent church on a Sunday as there all coming out, the heads bowed down prayers and god-fearers, your going to see 200 0r more good solid Christians drive-on-by. For test 3, I want all you good Christians to count your good deeds on earth and not in heaven, not much of a result was it. And thats the difference between a good honest atheist and a Christian, one knows, ones been there a 1001 times, and the other prayed for guidance. Tell me do you need guidance to do good, to help your fellow man, if you do your an awful cripple, a no good pretend Christian. And church is never going to get you to change your heathen ways. [Bob]