I have always liked figure skating–the watching, not the doing. My first remembered encounter with skating came from a novel. I first read it when I was 8, and had been prewarned that one of the sisters died. Then that wretched Amy with her pickled limes, clothespinned nose and novel-burning wicked self fell through the ice while skating. I was always disappointed that she wasn’t the sister who died. I was also thoroughly disappointed in Jo for dropping her anger at that little worm just because she narrowly escaped death. Ugh. But that sealed the deal for me–ever after, ice skating combined death and beauty in an eerie way.
Male figure skaters always seem more athletic to me than football or hockey players. Don’t even get me started on soccer and baseball. I love male figure skaters because they have power and stamina that they combine with artistic flair. Of course, the other men like to brush them off as less manly. And perhaps they are, if “manly” ‘manly’ means grunting and toppling and talking in a deep register.
And right now I have to confess that I have become enticed into Johnny Weir’s orbit. I don’t “love” him, the way you’d have a crush on an actor or singer. I wouldn’t even say I’m a fan. But I feel like I just appreciate him. I’m rooting for him. Because everything I’ve ever seen of him shows a person who is a PERSON. Who knows his own mind and isn’t afraid to speak it or live it, even if others don’t understand. I’m doubly impressed by him, because most other male figure skaters are so single-minded until about 26 or 27. They are all about the sport and the training regimen. Johnny is about the sport, but he also taught himself several languages, is interested in other cultures, in world history. He’s the kind of person they don’t seem to make a lot of, and I appreciate him for that.
I’ll just be content to say to stereotype the typical ‘stick and ball sports’ is about the same as me saying figure skaters are effeminate queers who couldn’t hack it in other sports.
And to to say soccer doesn’t require athleticism is akin to saying the Tour de France is just another bike ride.
Baseball…well that depends on your position. I’d agree you can write off most pitchers, first basemen, and designated hitters.
Freaky Weasel,
So how much time do you spend figure skating? I mean if it’s such an easy task compared to other sports. Now, your homophobia towards figure skating isn’t new (in fact, I just read an article during these past Olympic Games written by a Catholic bishop convinced if we didn’t get rid of male figure skating all the little boys in the world would grow up gay), but this is definitely the first time I’ve seen someone deny the athleticism involved in figure skating. I find it baffling that someone could watch the sport and not recognize the sheer physical strength required to use one’s body in such a way. But I guess it’s just a testament to the training in balance, stamina, and grace that they can make such an extraordinary amount of physical work look effortless.
FW and Coble, if grace on the ice is part of athleticism, surely grace on the baseball pitching mound or in the field count as well. (Not to mention that throwing a spherical object to a defined point 65 feet away at 90 miles an hour, or being able to take off in any direction with no warning to catch that sucker.) Did you ever watch Keith Hernandez or Bob Gibson? A-tha-leets. Running bases? I give you Lou Brock. I mean … I have seen so many ballplayers
And, Dolphin, I don’t think FW is calling figure skaters effeminate; I think he’s saying that calling them effeminate is no more a slur than calling other athletes deep-voiced grunters.
Dolphin, it’s not homophobia to point out that Kat’s stereotype of football and hockey players as knuckle dragging mouth breathers is silly by using a stereotype of my own.
The prototypical jock is as dumb as the prototypical figure skater is gay.
And yes I am too much of a man to figure skate, though I’ll humbly admit to being a pretty decent ice skater due to the last few years of hockey.
Come out to the ice slate a few laps with me. We can hold hands…but you’ll have to bend over. My knuckles drag on the ice.
Dolphin, it’s not homophobia
There are exceedingly few instances where the phrase “effeminate queers” is not homophobic. And I don’t think your usage counts as one of those few. Clearly you were using the terms derogatorily.
And yes I am too much of a man to figure skate
And you make Kat’s point (or what I took Kat’s point to be). It’s not about slighting other sports, it’s about pointing out the ridiculousness of some peoples messed up ideas about what it takes to be “a man.” Methinks that it’s YOU and not Kat holding the very stereotype that you are objecting to.
The thing that bothers me about Johnny Weir is that he dresses with such flamboyance but skates so — not exactly conservatively, but classically, I guess. I don’t mean that he shouldn’t wear whatever he wants, but I always feel that I’m being set up for an extraordinary performance, something really outside of tradition, and then I don’t get it. I keep telling myself to be ready to be let down in that respect, but I fail.
Which is mostly irrelevant to
KatCoble’s point. I do love the way he learned Russian to talk to his coach, though.knuckle dragging mouth breathers
Maybe you read what you thought you wanted to read, or what you assumed would be there.
As a person who has attended hundreds of hockey games, scores of baseball games and thousands of basketball (I’m from Indiana) games, I can attest that
grunting and toppling and talking in a deep register.
are all common occurances at these sports. Well, toppling is more common in hockey and football. But I’ve been to one or two basketball games. I’m married to a former basketball player. I’m the sister of a basketball player and a basketball coach. Both men are up there on the Kinsey scale, and both men grunt and topple during play.
I’m just about speechless. Effeminate queers?? Okaaaay. See, maybe you feel what I said marginalised you or your sport(s) in some way. But “grunting and toppling” is not the same as using slurs and pejoratives.
>…I don’t think…
Clearly
>Clearly you were using the terms derogatorily.
Clearly, you don’t know what the word “clearly” means.
Finally, you are correct, I have no vagina so I do not figure skate. <—-THAT sentence is offensive. Keep working at it, you'll figure out the difference.
Might I add, though, that whenever EVER the topic of male figure skating comes up there always seems to be at least one man to introduce the word “queer”.
It seems to betray a deep level of discomfort with this sport among other atheletes.
Kat I went back to re-read your post. I maintain, you put “manly” in quotes leading me to infer that your phrase “grunting and toppling” were painting the stereotypical image of a dumb jock. I countered that with a stereotype of my own. It was juxtaposed with yours for clarity.
To pull “effeminate queer” out of context to paint an insult that does not exist is intellectually dishonest.
I will simply disagree regarding the crassness. An insult is an insult.
Have you noticed, though, that the discomfort with male figure skating, and the related fear of effeminacy, is almost an exclusively USian thing? Not quite exclusive to us; some other Anglophone countries seem to share it a bit. Russians, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, not so much.
And, BTW, I apologize for having misread FW — he was indeed being jerky.
To pull “effeminate queer” out of context to paint an insult that does not exist is intellectually dishonest.
In context, it looks like an insult to me. But I’m willing to hear how you think your context makes “queer” a positive, affirming term.
“Queer” is not a stereotype, it’s a slur.
FW,
I put “manly” in quotes because I made an editorial error. It should have been a single-quote, instead of the double-quote. I’ll consent that the double-quote reads as sarcastic, which was not my intent.
I’m sorry you felt insulted; again, that was not my intention.
I see what you were saying and the message you were intending to convey. I take your point and stand corrected.
No apologies necessary, Kat. Thanks for helping me pass the time
The athleticism of figure skaters cannot be questioned.
I think subjectively judged sports, however, are more entertainment, than sport.
I enjoy them. I just wish there was a better, more objective way to keep score. It’s just so much more ‘sport-like’ to declare the winner as the first one across the finish line, the team with more points, etc.
That being said, I just didn’t think in the Olympics Weir was in the class of Lysachek or Pluschenko (who reminded me of the bad guy in ‘The Karate kid’). They performed with much more strength, and surprizingly, pizazz. Or, maybe for FW, I’ll use the word ‘flair’.
Not sure I get the difference between double and single quotes, Kat, my dear. When using them to replace finger quotes, either set works fine.
Or is there a particular set of the two that is used to replace italics? (This may be a blog style convention I’m unaware of.)
Danke! =)