I stated yesterday at MCB that I had issues with Mormonism and that I didn’t want to go into it over there. I don’t want to use MCB for that purpose.
But I do have something I want to get off my chest.
I’m a Christian, obviously. But as far as belief goes, I truly believe we are all creatures of free will and therefore free to choose the faith we follow. And there’s my issue with Mormonism in a nutshell. If you want to be a Mormon ( then that’s your business.
But Mormons, you see, encourage their members to track down all of their departed ancestors and baptise them as Mormons by proxy. That’s where I have a problem. When you think that it is your business to decide someone else’s religion for them you have crossed a line.
Think about it. In Christianity, NOT EVEN GOD decides a person’s religion for him. To raise yourself above God, to raise yourself to the point where you think you have some power to make such a personal decision for someone else–that’s a grave statement to make.
No, I don’t believe that Proxy Baptism actually changes the faith of the departed person anymore than it changes that late person’s food preference or favourite colour. I do, however, think that the intent to control choice is the message that Mormons send with proxy baptism. That desire to exercise their preference over that of another is a dangerous precedent.
I’m not abstaining from voting for Romney because of his Mormonism. On the list of reasons not to vote for the man, “Follower of LDS” doesn’t even register. But, frankly, the thought of a president who adheres to a faith which believes it can control the will and choice of others does give me pause.
Oh, so that’s why they’re so into the genealogy stuff? (Sorry, not all that educated on Mormonism)
Rachel – yes, that’s why they’re into genealogy. Pretty interesting, I think.
But I’m still not sure why that’s such a big deal. I don’t think it has anything to do with intent to control choice. Maybe I’m naive, but I think they honestly want to help everybody into heaven. I don’t see what’s wrong with that, esp since if you don’t believe in their faith, you can just ignore it.
I guess I’m not clear on how “choice” enters into it.
I have had some first-hand knowledge of the Mormon church, having spent my adolesence as a member.
Baptisms for the Dead do not, in fact, “convert” the dead. The dead themselves have to make that choice; the living just take care of the dunking part, which the church takes literally.
No, I don’t get it, nor do I agree with it.
However, I don’t think a potential candidate’s religion should matter in any way, shape, or form.
When you think that it is your business to decide someone else’s religion for them you have crossed a line.
I couldn’t agree more. Unfortunately, it seems the desire to decide someone else’s (fill in the blank) for them is a common thread in neocon philosopy.
If it were only their own dead ancestors, one would hardly mind. But when they get to ‘baptizing’ people who were murdered precisely because they belonged to another religious group (cough tens of thousands of Holocaust victims cough) they can’t possibly excuse what they are doing in any way that I find palatable.
I’m going to remain neutral (agnostic?) on much of what you say, simply because I don’t know enough about the Mormon faith to adaquately debate it’s theology and it’s implications on a Presidential candidate.
But in my life experiences, there are two things that really stand out.
They are some of the nicest, most familiy centered people that you will ever meet.
But there is nothing worst than seeing a ‘fallen’ Mormon. I’ve known two, and self-destructive only begins to describe.
Romney has far more problems than being a Mormon. He has a schizo policy record, including being for gay marriage as gov of Mass and against it now. Politics is of course, an art of compromise, but he seems very eager to compromise on issues that go against many issues for the Republican base.
It seems to me that the man from Michigan who became governor of Massachusetts and now wants to be president of the US will say and do just about anything to hold public office. I don’t care if he is Nice, he’s just plain crazy.
I think Guiliani or Thompson would be better suited as the GOP candidate, though Ron Paul is actually piquing my interest.
The real tragedy is that Christianity says you will go to hell if you are not saved as a Christian. Yet how many billions of people have lived and died without a knowledge of Christ, or without having been “baptized”? That is the ultimate hypocrisy in rule-making. What do we do about these folks? At least the Mormon’s have tried to come up with some kind of solution for this potential bottle neck. What are the rest of you doing, or thinking about, as a solution to this sticky problem? Does your conscience, as a Christian, allow you to just consign all these folks to hell? Because that’s the subtle secret of Christianity. Pure elitism. All those other billions don’t really matter because they are not me…the Christian says. There simply is no solution for the unbeliever who never got a chance to believe. At least the Mormons have a solution…however silly or repulsive it may be. At least they are logically consistent. While the rest of Christianity just ignores the flaw in their so-called God-given, God-approved system.