Feel free to skip to the end for the juicy stuff…
JL Kirk & Associates found my husband’s resume online. They contacted him a couple of weeks ago and offered their services as an ‘Executive Placement Firm’. As I’m wont to do, I of course Googled them as much as possible and found very little in the way of solid information. So I’ve decided to write up our experiences with them for anyone else who is interested in finding out more about this particular operation.
Anyone who has been searching for a job for any length of time is well aware of the various vulnerabilities that are part of the process. There’s the self-doubt, frustration and impatience, coupled with no small amount of worry. So when a job searcher gets an email that says “maybe we can help!” the relief is almost immediate.
My husband filled out an application and questionnaire, and returned it directly to the company. He then received an appointment with a counselor the following week. During that appointment the representative of JL Kirk & Associates interviewed him just as one would for a position. The afternoon after the interview he received an email that congratulated him on making it through the first step of the process. They wanted to schedule a second interview which required my presence as a Support Person/Spouse/Significant Other. When he scheduled the interview he questioned them directly about their fees and payment arrangements. He was told that if we received approval after the second interview the money would be discussed at that time.
So today was the second interview, and we drove to Maryland Farms for our 2:00 appointment. We sat in a waiting room next to a fake fireplace and a lone man in a suit. At 2:11 a matronly woman came out and announced to the other man–in front of us–that she would not be able to meet with him because he wasn’t able to bring his Support Person. They had a lengthy conversation in front of us about this failed meeting and his disappointment. He asked to speak with her behind closed doors (as would I) and then five minutes later that conversation ended with him leaving dejectedly. She then turned to us (it is now 2:17pm) and greeted us warmly.
We were led into an office that appeared to have been the result of a decorating war between a loan officer and an eccentric grandmother. The prototypical office furniture clashed with a giant print of Raffael’s Cherubs a reproduction oriental rug and a handmade mosaic table with a tilted top. The Husband and I were seated in two chairs across from the interviewer, who sat on a sofa next to a pile of throw pillows.
Here’s where the fun starts. We heard all about how hard it is to find a job, how most jobs aren’t posted online and are only found through networking. We heard about how the really good jobs are available only to those ‘in the know’ and can only be obtained through some wizardy combining Masonic handshakes, good dentistry and whatever pixie dust this particular company stores in the backroom. This interview seemed very carefully designed to exploit every potential vulnerability that any jobseeker feels. After about 10 minutes of conversation subtly designed to push every button we may have, the interviewer handed us a booklet that was said to be a tailored write-up of my husband’s profile as a job-seeker. The interviewer left us alone in the room to digest the booklet on our own terms.
The booklet consisted of three pages of reiteration of the interview’s strong-arm tactics, followed by a regurgitation of information from my husband’s resume, all summarised with a couple of pages essentially saying “the job market is tough but we think you’re really great and so we’ll be here to help you get a job!” We skimmed the booklet and reviewed our game plan, then signaled the interviewer by opening the door.
Our game plan was to ask direct questions about the company’s operation and placement record. In short, ‘what exactly do you do and how well do you do it?’ We had test answers in mind. In short, if we ask a direct question and get a vague answer such as “every case is different so numbers are hard to apply here” that tells us a great deal about the company’s services.
Sure enough, our first question about placement rate was answered with an “every case is different, etc.” style answer. Ultimately she gave us the figure of “90 to 92% placement rate” and then proceeded to tell us a long tale about a ‘failed’ client who showed up 37 minutes late to an interview with a CEO from an out-of-state firm. We all agreed that was indeed very unprofessional of said client and what a shame and how good to not work with him. (I of course was thinking about how we were on time for that interview which she failed to start until 17 minutes after the promised appointment time.)
She then gave us the very good news that they were prepared to accept us as clients. Then the fun began. We were told that Headhunters and Employment Agencies took fees only when a job had been secured for the job seeker, and they took their fees (generally 30-40%) from the hiring firm. But that means the job seeker gets a lower starting salary because all of their good money is going to the headhunter/employment agency. Thankfully, though, JL Kirk & Associates will be able to get my husband a job making a far larger starting salary. All we need to do is put $4,420 on a credit card today. Once we do that the entire weight of the firm of JL Kirk & Associates will begin the task of navigating treacherous shark-infested landmines of the job search on behalf of my husband. And just trust them, because they find jobs for 90% of the people who pay them to.
So that’s how it works. And that’s pretty much how we expected that it would work. But both the spouse and I believe that it’s irrepsonsible to not pursue any lead during this time so we thought we’d go through the process. Especially since they kept so much of it in the dark from the outset.
JUICY STUFF BEGINS HERE
But I’m very angry about it. If you’ve made it this far, I suppose maybe you could tell that I’ve been supressing most of my irritation. However, irritation makes for good blog reading, and so here it is.
I get really ticked off at people trying to use fear to motivate others. I don’t care if you are a fire-and-brimstone preacher, an insurance salesman, a used-car salesman or a cat burglar. Finding someone else’s fear and vulnerability and using that vulnerability to somehow enrich yourself is a cheap and underhanded tactic. It’s wrong and it’s cruel. And I think that’s exactly what this placement firm did to us today. There were times when I felt like I was sitting across from a spider. We were meant to feel at home enough to let down our guard so that the woman could then ply us gently with tales of terror. All of it was designed to make us hand over nearly $5,000 without question and without possibility of a refund.
The husband and I are not always idiots. We both expect to pay for services rendered from any provider. But we generally like to be treated as responsible adults. We had legitimate questions about the fee structure and we raised those at several points in the process. For them to not even discuss that fee structure until they had battered us emotionally for half an hour is what I would consider to be unethical. I’m sure there are other employment agencies and headhunters out there. We’ll continue to look for them.
In the meantime, I would discourage anyone who stumbles across this entry from even going through the JL Kirk & Associates “interview process”.
UPDATE
I should also mention that this company was formerly Bernard Haldane before it was purchased by Mr. Kirk Leipzig. One of the accusations against Bernard Haldane was that they would make an examination of the potential client’s assets and charge accordingly. I find it interesting to note just how close our “fee” was to the tax refund we recently received. Hmmm. Makes you wonder, no?
UPDATE 2, 4/17/06: Attorneys for JL Kirk & Assocs. contacted Media Bloggers Association attorney Ronald Coleman shortly after receiving his letter stating that the MBA was representing me in this dispute on Thursday afternoon. Both sides expressed their wish to avoid litigation or further aggravation of the situation. JL Kirk’s main concern at the outset was that we communicate their position – which is different from the information originally told to me by a JL Kirk employee – that JL Kirk is not a continuation of the defunct Bernard Haldane company, either in terms of corporate identity or stock ownership, and that JL Kirk’s principal, Kirk Leipzig, is only a former Bernard Haldane employee but did not buy any assets or stock of Bernard Haldane. I can’t vouch for the truth of that statement because I have no first-hand knowledge of the facts, but evidently anyone who wants more information can obtain it from JL Kirk.
As you know if you read their cease and desist letter, the company disagrees with what I have said about them here, but they have told the MBA lawyer that they are interested in discussing this with my husband and me personally rather than litigating in court. I have not decided if I am interested in talking, but I don’t mind the idea of putting this behind me and moving on, and will not write on this topic again.
Gosh. The part about HAVING to bring your spouse/support person with you made me edgy first, then when I got to the “All we need to do is put $4,420 on a credit card today” part my heart just sank.
I agree with you two’s take that it would be irresponsible not to pursue all options and I know things are so tough right now. I am really hating you both had to go through this experience though, the tale really gives me the creeps, I hope things turn out okay VERY soon.
Continuing to send good karma your way and keep y’all in prayers.
Damn.
This post makes me so angry, I swear I could resort to violence.
But then, I realise that this post will show up on a lot of Google searches. Much better than violence.
However, I still want to call Turko.
Morons.
If only there was someone to warn you of such scams…
http://sarcastro.squarespace.com/journal/2006/7/26/the-big-store.html
I’m with Slartibartfast on this.
These “employment” are destroying northwest Tennessee.
It makes me so damned angry I can’t think.
You actually had a better experience than I was afraid of when I read the “you must bring your spouse” part. I was afraid you’d get home to find that thieves had cleared out your house.
Lynnster, thanks. I’ve really no doubt that things will turn out okay in the long run, and I thought this was pretty educational. Thanks for the prayers. We continue to need them.
Slarti–
With Google, sites that are updated more frequently usually appear very high in the search rankings, even if they’re updated on a different topic. Because of that, this blog tends to have a very high placement in Google. Generally when I write an entry it comes in the top 5 for any search on the subject after a week or so. That’s EXACTLY the one reason I wrote this entry. I’m pretty confident that anyone searching for either J.L. Kirk or JL Kirk will get this story on the TOP of their search pile.
Which is why I wish Sarcastro had used the name of the company (it’s the same one, judging by the fake fireplace) in HIS blog entry. Dude, that would really have helped, because I did read it back in the day, but it didn’t show up on my googling.
nc–
I spent most of last evening at alternating levels of angry. I decided that my best recourse was to first do this write-up for the Web and then contact the State’s Attorney General. Since we didn’t actually spend any money we may not be a valid complainant according to the AG’s office, but I think we have enough to warrant a registered complaint based on deceptive business practices, misrepresentation and fraud. I find the fact that the amount we were asked to pay so neatly coincides with our tax refund (which is a matter of public record) very suspicious.
nm,
I hadn’t actually thought about that one. Given the way these crooks operated it wouldn’t have surprised me, though. Hubs thinks I’m a bit nuts but I asked the interviewer flat-out if the turn down of the other guy in the lobby was staged for our benefit. It seemed like the kind of thing con artists like these would do.
In doing more reading about these clowns I found a couple places where it is alleged that the “JL” in JL Kirk actually stands for “Jesus is Lord”. That really burns my butter.
I’m curious to know if bringing a spouse/support person was designed to have the second person apply “pressure” framed in a question such as “You do want your husband to succeed right?”
In this case, having your support and additional discernment only made things better – and it’s always good to have a extra person to sniff out a con… hang in there!
The best is just around the corner; stay strong; honorable people act honorably and stand firm for what is honorable. I’m praying for a great outcome!
I suspect the having the support person there is to make it harder for the person to sue when they don’t find them a job.
I’m sorry you had such a crappy experience, those people are bastards.
Kerry & Ivy, you’re both right.
There were questions directed at me designed to help me as the insecure wife put more economic pressure on The Husband. Didn’t work. I’m proud of the husband and not all that frightened. I WAS mad that they tried to pull that tactic, though. Like he’s not under enough stress already.
And there’s also the obvious legality of our not having an out with the credit card company to dispute the charges.
The “support person” scenario is a sleazy recruiting tactic. MLM’s like Amway do it all the time. If the person they are recruiting is married/engaged/in a long-term relationship, they try to get the recruit to sign their significant other up as well and be “partners”. Or they try the scare tactics by making sure the significant other knows just how much potential the recruit has and if they don’t support them then they are destined to fail. We had a disturbing experience with that at the beginning of our marriage. I can’t really give details because the recruiters in question are also family members and I don’t want to embarrass them on the Internet!
I’m so glad you went through the interview and sniffed them out and then posted about it. Undoubtedly it will help countless others out there who are being “recruited” by them!
If they thought bringing the “support person” along would make you all easier to intimidate, methinks they miscalculated.
Fuggem.
I really don’t think they reckoned on the dread coupling of an organisational analyst and a poker-playing skeptic.
I’ve got people
In doing more reading about these clowns I found a couple places where it is alleged that the “JL” in JL Kirk actually stands for “Jesus is Lord”. That really burns my butter.
My thought was that he inverted his name/initials so it sounded less ethnic (for lack of a better term). Either way, it’s sleazy. I hate people who use Jesus as a marketing tool.
Reputable headhunting firms are paid by the employer. As you have discovered, anybody that wants money from the employee is scamming you.
Perhaps “morons” was too harsh.
I linked to them, rather than naming them, because they didn’t actually put the arm on me for money. After the “bring your Special Other” directive, I figured it was a scam and decided not to go back for the part where they try to separate me from my money.
Plus, Paramount has their legal team enforcing a ruling that says I can’t use the nam “Kirk” without their written consent.
And this is legal?
Barely.
Vaguely.
Maybe not.
Hence my decision to take it to the Attorney General’s office.
It is legal. The same way Bill Heard sells cars is legal. Ethical is another matter.
JL Kirk sends you on interviews you could have set up yourself by reading the want ads. The tricky part is they get you to buy into their bullshit about their exclusive access to “high level decision makers”.
They are selling perceived value. Some marks are smart enough to see through the scam. Judging by their Maryland Farms address, there are plenty more who aren’t.
so, I’m curious as to what they do to shake down a single person….. or do they not bother with single people?
So let me ask a question…as a single person who isn’t in a significant relationship, would they work with me? Or would my lack in that area keep me from being a client?
I just wonder….
If the hubby wants to network and find those elusive jobs, he might be better served to try the Career Transition Support Group over at Brentwood United Methodist. IT’s a free service/ministry to anyone looking for a job. It meets on Monday evenings and has a useful network of contacts who are open and amenable to networking and helping one find those unadvertised jobs. It’s a great resource and one I used in my job search.
No, if you have an Important Other, they want them there to torpedo your possible objections regarding a huge financial decision. Like handing over all your cash to them in exchange for a job.
Closing this kind of deal requires the closer to eliminate the “Gee, I better talk this over with my wife, as this is a major financial decision and all” excuse.
You also can’t underestimate the power of shaming one Support Person in front of the other.
They had a really inelegant implimentation of it, but it was still there.
Questions like “Katherine, would you finally have peace of mind if [husband] had a real job with a stable company?” were just too rich for words. They not only slammed my husband’s [very real] previous jobs but also implied that he was crap at taking care of me.
I can see a lot of men ponying up $5K like some type of way to barter back their manhood.
Oddly enough I received a brash phone call from an Executive Assistant calling for the local VP of J.L. Kirk & Associates demanding I set up an interview. I asked “this is in reference to…..” her reply,” he(the VP) has your address and pharmaceutical experience circled and told me to call you”.
Now I know the rest of the story…
Thanks. T in OKC.
i am trying to figure out what has “steamed” you so much. Their business line is career counseling…you were put through their process and you didnt sign up..so why the consistent badgering….i dont see anything wrong of what they are doing…i think you have way too much time on your hands…this is what is wrong with the morality of America…maybe you can sue them? maybe you can ruin their image? I guess this would make you sleep better at night eh?
kath,
I’m so happy that you recounted this experience. More than once I’ve been conned into amway pitches and the like. This sounds like the worst kind of people. I would also object to being summoned as someone’s significant other. Like many other people said, it seems illegal since marital status isn’t allowed to be considered when hiring someone.
Another item I thought about was the other end. If (and that is a BIG If) these clowns do have a 90-92 percent success rate, how are they getting these people placed? There must be some shady activity going on at the other end. Two possible scenarios, they could be bribing HR reps at other companies to hire their candidates, or they could be using religious guilt to get their “friends” to hire their candidates.
It’s just bad news all around. I hope it all works out and you can get them to close up shop or retool their business practices, or get the AG to do it for them.
Thanks so much for sharing! I just called and cancelled my so called interview with J.L. Kirk! It was so vauge I thought they were a “normal” paid-by-the-employer recruiter.
Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ
Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ
Thank you; thank you! I have an appt. with them on Monday. While searching for something about them on the web, I found your blog. You better believe that within 5 minutes, that appt. will be canceled! Thank you for preventing me from wasting my time and aggravation!! ZZ
[…] my personal opinion, it would be unwise to do business with this company. Beyond the post referenced at that link, which is also available from Google, I have based my […]
[…] executive job search places (J.L. Kirk) back in February.. It was not a happy experience. Kat ably conveyed her frustration at the pressure tactics deployed by the firm along with incredulity that they were asked to pay […]
[…] , were creeped out and unhappy about the whole JL Kirk experience and had the unmitigated galls to write about it in her on-line journal. She was particularly concerned that JL Kirk was looking for nearly $5,000 in payment for their […]
Anon # 25 – you work for them don’t you. # 5 nm – As for cleaning out your house , State Farm does this to those who sue them. First , they buy the local police , then put in cameras in your house after buying your neighbors off , then , when they are ready and no one is home , here they come. And remember , State Farm has their lawers connected with these theives and they swear to be truthful in court. Hmmmm. Oh Nooo ! ! ! It’s a certified letter ! ! ! Should I open it ?
Today , America is all about playing the other person for $$$$$ and giving nothing to show for it.
Thought you might like to know that http://www.bobkrumm.com/blog/2007/04/11/kirked/
has been linked on FARK. He links to this blog entry and further suggests that, through the power of Google, this will never die. Good on ya! I highly commend your husband’s good taste in women… lucky man, to have your love & support.
Aaaand, I agree with Jerry Horne – Anon # 25 works for “Kirk”. Welcome to internet fame.
I would have to say that anyone that uses this firm would be deemed too stupid to hire in my eyes.
[…] am being ordered to take down all of my blog entries pertaining to JL Kirk & Associates. If I don’t, they will so me for tortuous interference and other damages. Apparently this […]
#25—Career counsling my foot….from what I’ve read, in my opinion, it’s a scam, and while it may be legal, it is not ethical…thank God they’ve been exposed. Of course, they will likely change their name and continue their game.
Many times, in sales circles, you want the spouse there so the person being sold can’t say, “I need to talk to my wife/husband since it’s such a big outlay of money.” It allows the salesperson to do what’s called a “one call close.”
The one call close isn’t unethical per se. Although what this firm is doing seems to be a bit shady… it’s the results that matter. If you paid the money and got a good job, it’s worth it. But it’s hard because the only way to find out is actually putting the money out. So, it’s a catch 22 situation.
Personally, I would not give them my money without them being more transparent in their operations. They need hard statistics that are certified as being accurate by an independent auditing firm. They need to have all the info on their website… not locked behind secretive doors.
It just goes to show you that “buyer beware” is what all of us should adhere to. And one good google search will go a long way towards helping you make the right decision.
If I were this outfit, I would post a lengthy, transparent comment to this blog, explaining everything about their operations and make this an opportunity for them to recruit more business (if indeed they are on the up and up) instead of threatening a lawsuit.
I had a similar thing happen to me recently. I have a business and a customer wasn’t happy with something. So, he posted it on his blog. However, he didn’t say the full story. So, I posted the exact email exchange that happened between us in the comments of his blog so that the reader can see the full story (which put him in a negative light.. not me.) But he removed the comment. It was THEN that I decided to threaten him with a lawsuit. I don’t mind someone using their blog to air their grievances, but when you mislead people in the process, thereby libeling the other party, that’s not kosher.
So he decided to keep my comment on his blog. I was happy and he didn’t get sued. Then he decided to pull the whole thing down since when the truth was fully known, he looked silly.
Sounds sketchy to me. Good call staying away from them.
Having a spouse go along on a job interview is flat out illegal. Maybe they get away with it because they, like, don’t have any jobs to offer! But it’s tacky. Stand up to these guys after that silly takedown notice. If it’s TRUE, it ain’t libel!
Seeing how these sleazebags are going the sleazy legal route with you for this post, I wouldn’t be surprised if comment 28 (and the duplicates) were from them, in order to “prove” you did them “harm.” Which of course is bullcrap, because anyone who gets shaken down for nearly five grand to do what you could do yourself would feel the same way you did. All you did was write about your frustration, and let people know about THIS TYPE of racket. They’re all over the place, and job-searchers should know about it. People without current employment shouldn’t be expected to cough up a few grand to find a job, EVER. These firms just prey on people who are in a bind, and it’s despicable.
http://www.consumeraction.gov/caw_employment_agencies.shtml
http://www.bbb.org/alerts/article.asp?ID=268
http://www.rileyguide.com/scams.html
[…] What started as a single blog entry has turned into an Internet circus with bloggers from around the world coming to the rescue of Kat at Just Another Pretty Farce. […]
[…] Just Another Pretty Farce: “JL Kirk & Associates: My Story” […]
Oh how reading Kat’s story brings back unhappy memories!! The process she describes and the tactics used are exactly what I experienced with JL Kirk Nashville over a year before her and hubby. Only difference is that I was more vulnerable and I did, indeed, put out the money….after two interviews (did not take the spouse) and numerous high-pressure phone calls. End result….nothing. Went through the “training”, did all that was required of me…they did nothing. They said they shopped my resume, but generally to companies that were in total different industries from my experiential background. Regardless, not one contact…not one interview…constant turnover in the JL Kirk organization requiring several new starts with the same exact outcome….nothing. I only wish somone had posted like this prior to my websearch of the company.
[…] Are Bad People JL Kirk Associates have threatened to sue a local blogger because the blogger, Katherine Coble, wrote about a negative experience she had with the company. If you read the whole story, […]
Bernard Haldane was a known huckster outfit for years. Same story as described here. I bet it’s still the same people, but had to assume a new identity. Really bad, bad operators. I’m glad this is out in the blogosphere. It seems a few potential victims have been warned off already.
I work for a placement firm that seeks out opportunities for doctors. We are paid by the hospital, practice, clinic or health system contingent upon them hiring one of our candidates. We do not require a fee from the doctors to find them opportunities, nor do we require money up-front from the above mentioned employers prior to providing the names and/or qualifications of our candidates.
If your husband is comfortable using an agency I would encourage him to seek out a reputable contingency firm, and there are several. The advantage to this is that the firm does indeed have access to top level decision makers, and if they’re worth their salt they should be able to tell you of at least two available opportunites fitting your husband’s criteria without consulting his or her notes.
In some cases, but by no means all, the fee is paid by the employer contingent upon a job offer being tendered and then taken out of the candidate’s annual salary on a percentage. If it is ever more than eight percent run, don’t walk. A reasonable figure is between three and five percent.
Do not be alarmed however if the recruiter asks to speak with you as well. A GOOD recruiter knows that the decision being made will impact the enitre family. Having the input of all parties concerned is vitaly important not only to the perspective employer but to the recruiter’s success as well.
But first and foremost, if they ask for money up-front walk away. There is no impetus for the recruiter to do anything for you if they’ve already been paid.
Something that I failed to mention previously: In very rare instances a commencement or sign on bonus is offered. There ARE firms that work exclusively with employers that offer this as a part of the employment package. The result is that “fee” you pay the agency is actually more of a rebate. You WOULD be required to pay an up front fee but that money will be refunded once a job offer is extended and accepted. But as I said earlier, this is an extremely rare situation and typically reserved for those in the rarified air of CEO, COO, CFO and college atheletic coaching.
I’m single. If they wanted me to bring my “support person”, does that mean I bring my cat?
🙂
[…] Coble ran across one of those companies while her husband was looking for work. She related the information on her […]
So, which one is Bernard Haldane and which one is JL Kirk here? It occurs to me, isn’t it kind of strange that there were two persons present, but each of them apparently single, in this setup obviously arranged to put the customer on edge?
QUOTE: So today was the second interview, and we drove to Maryland Farms for our 2:00 appointment. We sat in a waiting room next to a fake fireplace and a lone man in a suit. At 2:11 a matronly woman came out and announced to the other man–in front of us–that she would not be able to meet with him because he wasn’t able to bring his Support Person. They had a lengthy conversation in front of us about this failed meeting and his disappointment. He asked to speak with her behind closed doors (as would I) and then five minutes later that conversation ended with him leaving dejectedly. She then turned to us (it is now 2:17pm) and greeted us warmly.
We were led into an office that appeared to have been the result of a decorating war between a loan officer and an eccentric grandmother. UNQUOTE
Well, it makes one wonder, doesn’t it? Maybe they could do even better well off Broadway… 🙂
Thank you for the information. I recently recevied an offer from JLK-A and was in the process of my 2nd meeting. While going to the meeting, I called up another headhunter I’ve been dealing with and she read me the article from the city paper.
When I got to the office, the person I was to talk with was 15 minutes late and a gentleman walked in and sit down. Looking a bit desheveled, he asked if I were a client of JLK as well, and when I said no, he replied “Good luck, I’ve been here for a year and have yet to get the first interview”. He then proceeded with “you know 2400.00$ is alot of money to pay for this service” I responded, “2400.00$!!!!, are you serious?” Yes he said, and “I’m very dissapointed”. At that point, I said “Well, I believe I’ll be pro-active and LEAVE NOW”. Which is exactly what I did.
You need to keep this up, and even call the I-Team to expose this. Taking money from folks who are down on their luck is a bad deal.
Thanks again.
I got the initial email from JL Kirk last week.
When I googled them from my home internet account (the one on my resume), I got a number of what were purported to be Better Business Bureau web pages indicating that JL King was in good standing with BBB – no complaints. So many that it made me suspicious.
When I googled from the computer at work (I have left the ranks of the unemployed) it was a totally different scenario – all unfavorable posts like yours – none favorable.
Don’t know, technically, how this can be done, but I swear it is the case.
To Chris Hansen at NBC … here’s another predator to pursue …
That’s pretty wild. And you were using Google both times? Weird.
(I have some interest in how Google, Technorati, etc., results are formulated so I find that fascinating. And certainly somewhat suspicious! Thanks for sharing that info.)
I went to them when I was unemployed because I thought they were like any other search firm. Then when they wanted me to pay $4,000 I told them I don’t pay that kind of money without thinking about it and RAN out of there. They were telling me how hard it was to get a job so when I told them I had gotten interviews from responding to online postings they acted amazed. The whole thing was a high pressure situation and I am mad I put my wife through all that as well.
Mrs K Coble, I’m terribly impressed with your writing and thinking abilty, and if the job interviewer had any sense it was you they should have latched onto and employed. Your brilliant and surely must have some sales expertise in your background. I’m so impressed I am coming to collect you on a white horse and together we will ride off into the sunset together. And warn your husband if you will that 10 million men in England want a wife like you, and I’m prepared to fight them all for your hand. I’m now going to read all this very interesting correspondence about your hubby attempt at finding a job, and deep down I secretly wish to tell you that I’m very annoyed and jealous your husband finding you first. With your insights you and yours don’t need a job, but your own business, you in charge and success is guaranteed. Now back to the post, and tell your husband your a winner, and if your mad with him at times – then your biting him might do you both some good. A secret admirer.
AW LEEDS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POND.
What your up against is professional sales people, who know all about clients fears, insecurities and unspoken ambitions. Your smart, you sussed them out straight-away, but what about all those who are naive and trusting and simply hoping for the best. My guess is that they have a one-in-four- sign- up-rate. The market is huge and they must be laughing all the way to the bank. Your post comes under the heading off ‘Fair Comment’. If they contest this then lets see the proof. Issuing Civil Court Proceedings would be the worst move they could make, and you could always throw back at them ‘If your as good as you claim to be, then how come your not willing to offer a money back guarantee’, or to fair-bill clients after you have obtained them a job’. Another poster remarked ‘What an awful state of affairs it is for a company to trade in this manner’, and I’d like to second that. One day they might throw a suicidal person over the edge, or ruin a recoverable good marriage that gone through hard times together- but meeting them was the last sraw. Some of their clients must be in debt and paying them for xxxxxxxxxx all, is deceitful behaviour of the worst kind. AW LEED UK .
I received my letter today that they want to help me find a job.
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE ON THESE “A-HOLES”
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When I was at my 2nd interview with J.L. Kirk in Oklahoma, I realized after the great build up to what all they could do for me was that a key question needed to be asked so I asked it. I said, who makes the appointments with the key decision makers that you are telling me will be necessary. I was told I would be making them. So then I said well you are then a career coach of sorts and I expressed my disbelief at the $4,000+ fee. I thanked the man for his time and left. This happened to me last month.
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[…] am being ordered to take down all of my blog entries pertaining to JL Kirk & Associates. If I don’t, they will so me for tortuous interference and other […]
[…] Just Another Pretty Farce: “JL Kirk & Associates: My Story” […]
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Dear Katherine,
Thank you for sharing your JL Kirk story. I personally have not experienced it, but I know others who have. It is such a scam for an agency to expect the job seeker to pay a fee. I have only have recruiting firms place me who receive their fee from the company I have gone to work for. One agency that brought me to my job in Nashville, not only received the finders fee from the company that hired me, but the hiring company also paid for all of my relocation costs for me to move to Nashville (they even flew my Dog on the airplane) and they put me up in corp. housing at no expense to me for one month. Reality folks is do not be insecure about what a company is willing to do (financially and otherwise), if you are the one they want to hire for the job! Do not fall prey to predators who want to milk you financially knowing that you are feeling insecure about your situation….Have faith in yourself and trust that God will provide everything you need in the midst of your situation!
After reading this it brings back very bad memories. The process she describes and the tactics used are exactly what I experienced with JL Kirk in Oklahoma the first of this year. My husband was desperately trying to find a new line of work one that he did not have to work 12 and 13 hour days. We did put out the money.. over $4,000 to be exact…. this money came from cashing out a 401K account. Went through the “training”, did all that was required … they did nothing. They gave me access to a supposed web site with special jobs advertised in it. It is the same jobs that are on other web sites nothing special about theirs. Regardless, not one contact…not one interview…and they have changed their name they operate under. the same old lady and man still there just running the scam under a new name. I wished I had found this before we gave them our credit card #.
Katherine,
Thank you for taking time to write this blog. I read Tim’s blog from Mother Tongue Annoyances http://www.mtannoyances.com/?p=802 and then saw your story. I hope all goes well with you and your husbands job search.
I went to the first interview but it was with TRANSITION AMERICA (not yelling, just wanted readers to take notice)which has an uncanny resemblance to J.L. Kirk see Tim’s blog. I called my wife and told her they wanted to have her at the next interview. We were both confused so I started to dig through the internet to find out that I was being taken.
It is a shame the lengths people are going to make a buck. As a society, we have more “rich people” then any other country or time in history but look how far back our morals, character, and decency have deteriorated as a society.
Katherine
I have been scammed by Transition America in Brentwood, Tennessee. One thing that I want people to know is that Kirk Leipzig and his brother Rich Leipzig from J L Kirk and Associates own Transition America. How do I know that these two crooks are involved with Transition America, their VP forwarded me an email from Kirk Leipzig to Rich Leipzig and cc to the VP Rick Hirsch on Feb 5th, 2008.
They made false claims to me about them having the “ins” with the hiring managers in an abundance of local companies. They don’t.
Stay as far away for these “Christians” as they use that angle for their sleazy marketing and con. If you live in the greater Nashville area, spread the word about these crooks and don’t let anyone be fooled by their promises.
Katherine,
I just met with Rich Leipzig this morning. His name was provided to me by Francis Walls of FAW Consultants. They held a workshop together on career building. I was unable to attend the workshop, however, contacted Ms. Walls.
Rich claims he is working full time for a career consulting company, which he stated the name was Transforming America” not Transition America. He stated he is beginning to do some moonlighting for career coaching in the evening and eventually partner with Ms. Walls to start their own business.
After reading the information on your website, I feel like I was about to begin the process of being scammed. He certainly sounds very knowledgeable in the area of career consulting. I certainly do not feel comfortable using his services considering what I have read, the fact he stated the name of the company he works for is Transforming America, and he was reluctant to provided references for his services.
Thank you for the information.
Reading this certainly brings back very bad and angered memories. I am feeling the sting over and over! The processes described above are exactly what I experienced with JL Kirk in Brentwood, TN almost three years ago. I was desperately trying to find a new career path – changing industries. I did put out the money.. $4,000 of my hard earned (and emergency money savings). I went thru the training, skill appraisal, professional development (that I once taught in my previous career) etc. Did everything that was required … and everything they asked or suggested that I do….In return, I got a hand full of referrals (one of the owner’s neighbor is a drug rep – dead end!; one of the owner knows someone that works at Purina – dead end!; I could give you a few more examples of their weak leads. They did get me connected with a website that I visited daily with job leads that did not pertain to my background nor expertise…. similar to any other job website.. still dead end! When I needed my resume revamped – I actually paid another Brentwood company to rework it for $75 because nobody had the time to call me back…after leaving three messages! (this was about the time they changed names..so they had to get their new story straight I assume! With all this headache/heartbreak not one contact…not one interview… other than the ones I generated myself… I could elaborate more on my experience..but I will refrain from posting it. I did go thru four career coaches in approx one year… I continued to try to maintain contact with the company to at least “get my money’s worth” it was just more headache and heartache.. Very maddening and frustrating… $4000 is ALOT of money to me…
Let me also say that the time I signed up, I was new to Nashville, I knew NOBODY…other than the girl at the local bank and eager to build new contacts and did gradually… I was very vulnerable and felt J.L. Kirk could and would truly help me…. I was sadly mistaken… I networked with Chamber of Commerce members, went to fund raisers, shook A LOT of hands and found the job I currently have… They certainly did not fulfill their end of the deal… I wish I could get at least a portion of my money back… I keep telling myself, what goes around comes around… The stories I experienced are funny, unprofessional and the local news could easily do a segment on it… Good luck in your search to anyone still seeking!
Transforming America, aka Transition America, is JL Kirk, revamped. Same players, although I understand they are saying Kirk is not involved, which is a lie as I met with him there in July. I made the ill fated mistake of signing on with them last summer and it was a complete waste. I have yet to find anyone until now who had bad experiences with them as Transition America. You can find little to no info on them under that name.
My story is the same as everyone else’s. I gave up dealing with them because frankly it was more a drain on my time and I was doing much better on my own. I got nothing from them except a useless handbook I could have found online or at the library, even, a resume that I had to redo anyway, a list of the “Top 100 Companies in Middle TN” – come one!, and a bunch of empty promises about their “inside track” which I am convinced does not exist. Oh, and their exclusive database of job listings that I found most of repeated on careerbuilder.com.
I am so angry I don’t even want to speak with them further. The “President” of the co. called me tonight in response to a BBB complaint I filed and was full of the same cock and bull I hear he feeds everyone else.
One thing that really bothers me is that almost everyone I ever saw at my appointments seemed to be over 50 or 60 years old, which makes me think they are preying on those who perhaps had to take early retirement, etc. I know they have specific targets. Suffice it to say, after finally finding the JL Kirk link to them this week, I have learned A LOT!!!!!!
I would be very grateful to talk with someone directly who has also been affected by them.
Would love to also speak with others who signed on… but not sure how to establish that contact. AJ is correct… the people I would see before and after my appointments were in that age group or older… makes one wonder how they continue to operate. My expectations were much higher (and that is my fault) but they led me to believe they could certainly meet them. My friend called me a few months ago and told me he was meeting with a career counselor/coach in Brentwood, and he wanted to know what I thought.. as I asked questions, I learned more and more and it happened to be the same company. I told him to save his money and take me out to dinner for saving his hard earned money… so we had a great dinner!
Kathleen,
I need to amend my above post. Ed Wozniak, President and owner of Transition/Transforming America has pointed out in one of his multiple rebuttals of my BBB complaint, that he and his wife own Transition/Transforming America. What he doesn’t address is that Kirk and Rich Leipzig work for him.
He also won’t address the fact that his office is in the same building, the material he uses, the resume template, the sales techniques and product deception are the same as J L Kirk and Associates. Coincidence?
I need to be fair and correct my previous statement that the Leipzig’s are not owners of TA.
Ed has threatened me with “legal action for my false and inaccurate communications over the internet” unless I, “withdraw/retract the degrading remarks he (me) has published on the internet regarding the Company and me (Ed) personally on the BBB website, The Rip Off Report and any other communications he has published on the internet.” (I guess he reads your blog. Good work!) It is evident that if anyone retracts or withdraws their previous postings that Ed has threatened them with a lawsuit or has made this a stipulation for a refund. He has done that with me for Ed to refund me 58% of the money they stole from me. I declined.
I retract the statement about ownership but stand firm on everything else I have posted to inform consumers of Transition/Transforming America’s con.
To confirm AJ’s comment, I am 50 years old and have been preyed upon with false promises from these crooks. I’m sure that many individuals in my protected age group have fallen for their scheme.
It’s a shame that us AARP card carrying members are taken advantage of because of our unforseen and unfortunate employment situation. I just hope that no one else is taken.
Thats messed up has contacted me on these people.
Hopefully this exposure will put them under.
Hi folks (ie everyone who’s posted in the past year or so)…
As you probably read, Katherine can’t respond publicly to your comments on this issue… but I can, so I am just posting to assure you that none of your comments are being ignored and are indeed being read and noted, at least I’m still reading these threads. I appreciate everyone who’s shared their stories, hopefully the continued warnings will keep some folks from having had to fall into the same crummy circumstances with that company. Thank you all!
My experience is very similar. About 3 years ago, I went to JL Kirk in Brentwood and well into the interview process figured out what they were all about. After pursuing other endeavors for several years, I have recently renewed my executive placement search, and was contacted by Transforming America after posting my resume on Monster.com. I did not associate the two firms, but walking into their office, I got an eerie feeling of deja vu. The people were all different from the first visit to JL Kirk (there must be lots of turnover in the scam business), but as soon as the interviewer informed me of the required second interview with spouse/significant other, I became suspicious, and a quick Google search of “JL Kirk Transforming America” brought me here. Thanks for all you kind good folks who care enough to share your bad experiences for the good of others. The worst scams are those which prey upon the dreams of others.
I dealt with J.L. Kirk 2 years ago, and my story is almost verbatim to Katherine’s. They give me a big story about finding executive jobs and that with my education and work experiences that I would have no problem finding a job. They didn’t tell me that I would be the one doing ALL the work. I was led to believe that they had a list of unpublished executive level jobs. After I gave them $3500 and spent a month working on my resume- which I have since abandoned for my old resume- they told me to contact my friends and family and hit them up for jobs. What? I informed them that I had already been doing this and that I needed some of those interviews, which I had been promised. Instead, they gave me some names of former clients, who had used their process and succeeded in finding a job and that they should be able to help me. When I contacted the former clients on the list, they, too, thought that JL Kirk was a bullshit organization. This went on for sometime. I finally found a job in La., with out their help. After I was laid off from that job, I went back to JL Kirk , but they were out of business already. Dealing with them has made me more skeptical my business dealings. I guess I could be grateful for that, but I would rather have my money back.
I just received a call from this company today for an interview this Friday. Part of me would like to go and see if I am asked for a 2nd interview with them. Then if I am asked to bring my significant other maybe I could contact That’s All Messed Up and ask one of the many attorneys I see on a daily basis to stand in as my significant other. The other part of me just wants to cancel the interview and move on.
Hmm?
More validation, from NewsChannel5 Nashville:
http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=8651526
[…] My fault, apparently for not outright naming JL Kirk as the firm engaged in scammery. Kat Coble worked her internet sorcery and a whole shitstorm erupted from there. Threats of A Big Lawsuit were issued from […]
Thank you all for submitting your stories. As a single mother of 3, currently employed and new to the area, I will not be wasting any more time, gas or money on this organization. It’s a shame that there are people out there that take advantage of people in need and take their hard earned money or make them finance over $4000 only to find out the company does nothing for them.
Just to let people know that Transforming America has changed their name to NASHVILLE CAREER PARTNERS. The connection to JL Kirk was made by Newschannel 5 in their investigative report. They also exposed TA in their undercover video. They are still located in the same office in Brentwood. The BBB has revoked their charter. As most scam artist do when they are exposed, they change their business name but not their scam.
Be AWARE…never pay a search firm up front to help you in your job search.
Having a spouse present is pretty common in consumer based, larger scale purchase presentations. Most people wouldn’t make that size purchase without consenting their spouse. Therefore, if they have the spouse present – they can skip the step of waiting on that person to explain the purchase to the spouse. In addition, they know the prospect will never explain it as convincingly as they can (in this situation, with scare tactics). Also, the prospect will never again have the same ferver that they had when they were presented to by the selling company, and certainly will not be able to transfer the original excitement to the spouse when they haven’t been thoroughly trained in the company’s sales process. With larger and/or important purchases, your chance of making the sale is a fraction of what it would be if the spouse is not present. So low, that if the spouse isn’t present that many sales professionals will not present if the spouse is not there. This in itself, is good sales practice – however, everything else about this company seems to be bad practice.
R.A. Danny, that’s kind of harsh to say. I fell for it and many people would say I am not an idiot. When you are laid off and out of work for about 6 months, you start to grasp at anything. So in response to your comment, go touch yourself.
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Wow. It is a shame that people are out there to take advantage of others when they are at a vulnerable point in their lives. I am suprised that they are still in opperation. I was in the process of looking for a headhunter and the first thing I came across was this blog. My guard was already up anyway but to see this is amazing. Thanks for having the courage to warn myself and others about this scam.
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OK, K, got caught up here. What a disgraceful way to treat unemployed and often desperate folks. I hope people keep outing every manifestation of this scam…. And you need to delete those spammy comments. 🙂
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